I met Donna Freitas about a year ago at Kindling Words, when we struck up a conversation in the lobby of the inn and discovered connections crackling all over the place. She told me about her work as an assistant professor of religion as well as an author of nonfiction and fiction, and I got all excited and told her about my interest in the many and exciting ways arts and faith can intersect, on the page and off of it.

(Here we are in all our morning glory. Breakfast at KW is meant to be enjoyed in bedhead and cozy clothes.)

Donna’s debut YA novel, The Possibilities of Sainthood, was released this summer from FSG to wide critical acclaim—four starred reviews and an abundance of buzz. It is an infectiously joyful book about an Italian American Catholic fifteen-year-old who is obsessed with saints and kissing. I am delighted to have her here to talk about her wonderful book, religion in YA, and the Pope.

SZ: The Possibilities of Sainthood is your first foray into fiction, and I have to say, you make it look easy. Was it? (Tell me it wasn’t!) I guess this is a “process” question: what was yours, and what did you discover were some of the main differences between writing nonfiction and fiction?

DF: You are so nice to think I make writing look easy (and you, Sara, should talk!). The Possibilities of Sainthood went through many, serious revisions before it came to be the story within that lovely packaging FSG came up with (I adore the cover!). I actually rewrote the entire last third of the book during the editing process.

But that first draft! O, that I could always experience writing as I did that first draft. It was writing at its most joyous (I know I sound cheesy, but I’m being honest…). Once I had my protagonist’s name, Antonia Lucia Labella, and her two “wants�—sainthood and a first kiss—I was off and running and I couldn’t get the story out fast enough. What compelled me to write the first draft so quickly was Antonia’s voice, which was loud and clear in my head. It was so much fun. (The irony of the fact that, when I write fiction, “I hear voices� as I like to put it, is not lost on me, given that I am a professor of religion who often teaches the famous women mystics who heard voices of a different sort back in the medieval day…but I digress). Anyway, then came the revisions….the long, grueling revisions. Lucky for me I had a wonderful editor to hold my hand through this process, Frances Foster, who was truly encouraging whenever I got insecure about whether the novel should ever get published. It’s nice to have someone with that kind of faith in you!

As for the fiction v. nonfiction issue: I would say that writing fiction in general is a lot more fun because you get to make stuff up! I love making stuff up. I could make up stuff all day and sometimes I do. In my nonfiction, on the other hand, I have to do endless endnote work which requires endless research which requires endless fact-checking, etc. I do love both genres, though, and when I am deeply invested in a nonfiction project like I was with my last book, Sex and the Soul: Juggling Sexuality, Spirituality, Romance and Religion on America’s College Campuses (April 2008, Oxford University Press), the grueling part of writing nonfiction is easier to confront when you care so much about the material and whether it might have a real impact on people once it comes out.

So with nonfiction, the blood, sweat, and tears are there the whole way through, and with fiction, they tend to show up during revisions.

SZ: Unless I am really confused when it comes to what I know about Catholicism (very possible), the popes in your book are fictional. I can think of some reasons that was a good idea, but I’d like to hear yours. And then that leads me to wondering if all the saints featured in the book are real (I recognized some, like our lusty friend Augustine!) or if you made any of them up?

DF: You are absolutely correct: the popes in the book are fictional. Though, it’s very possible, and even highly likely, that one of the popes, the conservative one that Antonia is rather frustrated with is, let’s say, inspired by the current Pope. I have two reasons for using fictional popes, though. The first has to do with the liberties I could take with a made-up pope vs. the real pope. My intent with the book was not to offend anyone, and then (I don’t think this is giving anything essential away), the first pope dies. If I’d used the real pope then it would’ve have been much trickier to, well, you know, kill the pope (she, meaning me, whispers, shaking in fear that one of her Catholic colleagues, or worse, some of the Catholic conservatives who say mean and nasty things about her and excommunicate her over email might see this and take it out of context…). My second reason for making up the popes was that it was an opportunity to remake the pope according to my own image of who I’d like to see show up in the Vatican! I am a scholar of religion after all, who does work in feminist Catholic theology, so this was my chance to put all that critique I do into action! I could make the pope have whatever values and interests I wanted! So the second pope, well, he has feminist interests. It makes me feel all sneaky and subversive. Can you tell that I am truly a geek?

As for the saints, like the saint for unattractive people, or the saint for spelunking, or the patron saint against dumbness (yes there really is one of those), or even against wild beasts: those are all real. That’s why I loved writing about them! There are thousands of Catholic saints and to me, they are just comedy in waiting.

The only made-up saints in the novel are the ones that Antonia’s thinks up. That part was fun, too. Though, there are so many saints with crazy specialties that are legit, that at times it was challenging to come up with overlooked ones!

SZ: Why do you think there are so few mainstream YA books that feature characters who have a positive relationship with their religious faith and/or traditions?

DF: That’s a great question and one I feel I have to be careful about answering—though I am going to be honest. As a professor of religion, I am well aware how uncomfortable talk of religion is to many people, never mind an encounter with a person who is practicing in a tradition. Sometimes when I tell people the subject area of my academic work they think it’s cool and have tons of questions, but often I get weird looks, or someone changes the subject, or asks whether that means I’m “crazy devout� in some way or another.

I’ve had the same experience in the YA world (among fellow authors): sometimes I feel I need to hide not only my professorial work, but also the fact that I am a Catholic. And sometimes it’s totally okay to be open about it, too. But I wonder occasionally if other people are thinking… “Oh…there’s that weird religion girl� when I walk in the room.

Given that religion makes lots of people uncomfortable, or even more so, angry, it’s not that surprising for religion and protagonists practicing a faith tradition (as just a normal part of their life—not as a massive conflict within the story) are rather rare, at least in an explicit sense—especially if we are talking about Christianity. There are a lot of subtle taboos with respect to religion lurking under the surface of YA, just as there is a lot of religion implicit in storylines as well (take Skellig by David Almond as one example, or The Giver by Lois Lowry as another). I think it might be more okay in YA lit to play around with Buddhism, or to be a practicing Hindu (in general)—because people think Eastern traditions are trendy and tend to have less baggage associated with them—and it’s definitely okay to make fun of religion (especially Christianity), or to lose your faith as part of a story. Islam and Christianity—when they do appear in YA novels—seem to be okay as villains (perhaps excepting Does My Head Look Big in This? by Randa Abdel-Fattah), but much less okay as simply part of the protagonist’s life backdrop and practice.

I think this situation is unfortunate because so many teens do practice a faith tradition and not everyone is disaffected. I’m not sure we (YA authors) do such a good job representing these teens and this aspect of their lives. Then also, to me, religion really can be lighthearted and filled with life and comedy. It’s not all doom and gloom!

I’m going to stop there. I think you get the picture. I hope this answer can be food for thought in a positive way. 

SZ: (Me, too, and I’m betting some folks will have more examples of YA books in which religion plays a positive or neutral background role–if so, let us know in the comments!) On the subject of things rarely portrayed in teen fiction:  You’ve written before about faith and sexuality – in fact, you’re a bit of an expert! Antonia’s obsession with kissing and having her first real kiss is so refreshingly sweet and so full of joy, and even her and her friends’ ritual “sluttification” of the school uniform manages to feel innocent and age-appropriate. She is a “good girl” and also naturally and believably obsessed with boys. Can you talk about this  a bit—did that part of the story came as it was or did you wrestle with it a bit?

DF: While I was writing the story, I was talking to another author about the storyline so I mentioned the part about how Antonia is 15 and never been kissed. The advice I got from this person was that I should make her 12 instead because it’s unrealistic to have a 15 year old girl who hasn’t kissed anyone yet. That shocked me. Especially because it’s possible that I was one of those girls and granted, that was a while ago but I think they still exist!

The college students I write about in Sex and the Soul are so sad and conflicted and unhappy about their sex lives and hookup culture. It was painful to hear their stories. It’s not that they don’t want to have sex, but they are not having good sex or happy sex—at least that feeling isn’t lasting more than in the moment if they are having it at all. But they long so deeply for old-fashioned romance, to get excited about a kiss, or just having a conversation with someone they like who might like they back.

In many ways with The Possibilities of Sainthood I wanted to capture all that joy and excitement and romance associated with falling in love, without all the very unromantic pressures that hookup culture and that alcohol-soaked “Gossip Girl�-like atmosphere surrounding sex for teens and college students today.

First kisses are glorious. I think it’s important for us to write about them! And to celebrate protagonists who aren’t simply portrayed as innocent if they haven’t been kissed since Antonia is plenty-wise, even in her inexperience!

SZ: If you could email the current Pope the way Antonia does, what would you say?

DF: Um, will you please loan me 600 euros to have my shoes handmade? Do those dresses you wear ever really get too hot? And btw, can you please get over your fear of women in authority, your angst about feminism, and realize that the Catholic Church’s attitude about gay marriage (and gay anything) is reprehensible and totally in conflict with Catholic social teaching? Oh, and not to forget, the whole ban on condoms—it’s not helping the world deal with the AIDS crisis. I think that might be enough for him to handle for now.

SZ: Hey, maybe he will Google himself and read this!  Thanks so much for your time, Donna.

You can order The Possibilities of Sainthood wherever books are sold, visit her at her web site,  and be sure to leave a comment if you’ve got any thoughts on the faith in YA issue (or for that matter, faith in any mainstream fiction).